Weespxx

Hi All

My husband and I (living in Amsterdam) are planning to do 2 weeks of intensive Spanish classes in Granada or someplace else South, in Feb. I speak 2 languages and he 3 - we're not geniuses, but we pick them up OK. My question is ... how much Spanish can I expect to learn by doing 25 or so intensive hours (just the 2 of us) per week, plus the added extra of being in a Spanish speaking environment? I'd like to think I will gain a decent basis to build on, but don't want to delude myself into thinking I'll be anything near fluent.

Also, we're learning Spanish for business in the US - where the majority of the people we'll be working with are Cuban in Miami. Are we crazy to be learning Spanish in Spain?

Looking forward to anyone else's experience in this.

Thanks - T

subcon

i would think that if you already have a reasonable fluency in either french of italian, you would assimilate spanish fairly quickly. the grammatic structure of romance languages is the same.

as to spanish spanish there are two major dialects castillian and catalan with the former being predominent. new world spanish is somewhat different particularly in idiom. mexican spanish is to castillian what french canadian is to parisian: pig latin.

maletas

You will learn a lot in two weeks and since you have an aptitude for languages you could make great progress in that amount of time. Of course the more time that you spend in a Spanish speaking environment, the more comfortable you will be. If you speak another romance language such as French, that would even be more helpful. It doesnt matter where you take the course and the Spanish spoken in Cuba has its roots in the region of Andalucia which is where Granada is. The the accents of these two places have some similarities. Yet they differ a great deal at the same time. I think that what you are planning to do is wonderful. Buena suerte!
Subcon,
Not to be rude but Castilian and Catalan are languages not dialects. The Spanish do not consider the Mexican variation any other to be pig latin as you say. Most French do not consider French Canadian to be inferior or "pig latin" as you describe. The language in Quebec and other parts of French speaking Canada have some vocabulary from the 18th century but the francophones of Canada can be understood by anyone in the Francophone world.

NEDSIRELAND

I'll address your second question first: The castellano that is spoken in Cuba is very much like that spoken in Spain. In 'little Havana' you may find a lot of slang and 'Spingles' spoken, but basically it's the same language.

As for how much Spanish you can learn in 2-weeks immersion w/intensive study, that depends on your background: If you have a grounding in Romance languages (Latin, Italian, French) you should be able to gain a high level of fluency in that time. But then you must keep working on it or you will lose it.

laverendrye

subcon: I don't understand what you mean when you refer to the Spanish spoken in Mexico and the French spoken in Canada as "pig latin". Please explain.

ira

ehay eansmay atthay itay isay otnay tandardsay anishpay.

laverendrye

Andway Americanway Englishway isway otnay andardstay Englishway
andway isway igpay atinlay ootay?

car

Weespxx
The spanish spoken in Cuba,Ecuador,Spain(Castellano),Argentina, etc..is exactly the same language, there is certanly a difference in accents and local expressions. The main problem you will face is related to cultural differences.
A highly educated Cuban may find easier to comunicate with a highly educated Spaniard, or Ecuatorian than with a poorly educated person in his own country.
So Spain is as good as any other spanish speaking country to learn as far as you are being teached properly.
Two weeks is certanly a short period for any language and as some posts mentioned, if your mother tongue is within the Romance(latin) languages it will make it easier.
I always found helpful learning a language buying basic children's books.

Statia

Ira and Laverne, anksthay orfay ethay aughlay.

carrolldf

I took 3 years of Spanish in High School and one of my teachers spoken Castillian Spanish and another spoke Mexican Spanish. I always thought the Castillian sounded better -- but that may have been because I liked the first teacher better. Later, when I took college classes in Spanish, my instructer spoke Cuban Spanish. And I've had several friends who spoke Puerto Rican Spanish -- they were actually the ones who were most difficult to understand, but I think that's because they spoke the fastest. But, as others have said, it's the same basic language and same basic vocabulary with local differences for accents and idiom (slang) and speed of talking but if you get the basics, you should do well.

I envy you the opportunity and think you'll have a great time as well as learn a lot.

mile

Oye mi hermano!!!! hello, is the same spañish, with a touch of different accent. Cubans are desendents of Spaniers. How well do you want to learn the spañish , no person can learn a different language in 2 weeks.
You can learn: hola,adios,gracias, donde esta el baño? , policia, ayuda!
(help). but don't worry Spañish most
of the spañish people had learn English in school. adios!!!!!

cooter

I agree that you will get a decent basis to build on in this time, but a lot depends on your fluency in other romance languages and general aptitude. Definitely two weeks is only a basis, especially since you want a "business level" of functional Spanish.

I can speak to your second point a little better, as I am from Miami and of Cuban origin. Castilian and Cuban Spanish are the same language, and are certainly mutually comprehensible in almost any context. I have both personal and business dealings with Spaniards on a very regular basis, and rarely have had a problem understanding or being understood. There are significant differences in accents (as there are within Spain; the accent in Andalucia is closer to the Cuban accent than others, and Canarian Spanish is the closest to Cuban Spanish), and also in vocabulary, but these are usually no more insurmountable than the differences between American and British English. Education level and context has more to do with it than anything; street slang is highly different in Miami versus Spain, but business Spanish is very similar, although there are some vocabulary differences to keep in mind (a simple example, the word "profitable" can be translated as "rentable" in Spain; among many Cubans, this would not be understood to mean profitable.They would use "aprovechable" or "ganancioso." ).

One observation: if your business dealings in Miami will be primarily with the local Cuban community (as opposed to other Latin American business people in Miami, of which there are lots), you may be better off in English than in basic Spanish. The generation of Cubans who first came to Miami in the 60s is getting on in years, and the second generation tends to be fully bilingual and many are more comfortable in English than Spanish. Even among the first generation, most people in a business setting speak fluent English. Not at all to discourage your efforts, as Spanish is tremendously useful (often essential) for business dealings in Miami, but you may need to get to a very high level before you will be able to transact business in Spanish, as otherwise people will tend to use English. A lot will also depend on the background of the people you will dealing with. I do wish you the best of luck.

A final observation to subcon: Castilian (referred to generally as "Spanish&quot and Catalan are two distinct languages. Neither is a dialect of the other.

Christina

This is interesting because I'm studying Spanish now for a trip to Spain next year. This is a brush up for me as I took several years in high school although haven't used it much, however I can read and understand Spanish very well because I know French. Anyway, my brother speaks Castellano fluently, my SIL is El Salvadorean, my father spoke and taught Castelleano and my current teacher is also El Salvadorean. We usually understand each other but I have the most trouble understanding the El Salvadoreans in this group, actually (my SIL and teacher). It's partly the accent and partly just good speech habits, I think (ie, many Americans do not pronounce English very well and slur words, etc) and lack of enunciation.

I notice some accent differences but there are some vocabulary differences also, although not enough to worry about. I hope I can get by in Spain. I am using Pimsleur in addition to the class but am not crazy about it -- they have one guy on there with what I think is an Angentinean accent as he pronounces "ll" in words oddly (to me).

As for French, I do know that many Francophones do not consider certain French Canadians to speak very well nor do they understand them (especially those outside the major cities). I can't understand some of the real provincial accents there, either. Last time I was there, I was speaking French with a bartender in Quebec City and his accent didn't seem very different from many in France, and he said that French people claimed they couldn't understand him the last time he visited Paris and made him speak English. He was raised speaking French.

slander1709

I've studied Spanish in Spain twice in the last two years, once in the north (San Sebastian) and once in the south (Malaga). How much you learn depends on 1)your natural talent for languages, 2) whether you knew any Spanish going in, 3) whether you already know other similar languages, 4) the quality of the school you choose, 5) the time and effort you put into it, and 6) time and effort your fellow students put into it. When I first studied in San Sebastian, I knew very little Spanish and I learned basic conversational Spanish in 3 weeks. I could only speak in the present and basic future tense and had a very small vocabulary, but I could communicate. It was a tremendous help that I knew a little Spanish before I started because I was able to skip the total beginner class. It was a little overwhelming at first because I probably should have been in the total beginner class but I learned far more in the end. I recommend that you carefully research the school you attend because the quality of the instructors and the school itself will make a big difference. There are organizations that do quality control on such schools so you might want to check to see whether the schools you are looking at have been approved by x, y, and z. Good schools also attract better students which can also make a big difference in how much you learn. The one I went to in Malaga was great. You can check them out at www.malacainstituto.com. Good luck.

subcon

my statement about pig latin vis a vis canadien french and mexican spanish was a bit of intentional hyperbole.it was a joke, perhaps, not in the best taste. if i've offended any of our neighbors north or south, i apologise.

that said, mexican spanish, in particular, is very far idiomatically and neologistically from castilian as is french canadien. that it can be at best relatively understood in spain has been a given for many years.

Weespxx

Thanks for all the advice and tips ... and jokes. To clear up one thing I did not make clear in my post, we have another office in Miami, where most of the employees (office and dock workers) are of Cuban descent. They all speak Spanish, of course, when together and we think it's handy that one of the owners also speak Spanish. Not to mention, Spanish is one of the most useful languages to learn globally. I'm under no illusions that we can become proficient, much less fluent, in 2 weeks, but I hope we can build a decent base for future learning. Thanks again everyone. Weesp

Kate_W

I did a 2-week intensive (25 hours were week) Spanish course in Salamanca about a year ago, and picked up quite a lot in 2 weeks. I've taken courses with Mester (in Salamanca) and Don Quijote (in Barcelona and Madrid). I'd recommend strongly either school.

I started slightly ahead of the beginner course (because I'd been studying on my own) - ie I joined a group that had started as beginners one week earlier. By the end of my second week (i.e. their third week), we were working through the past tenses, had learned a useful amount of everyday vocabulary and could conduct simple conversations.

You should take a small dictionary and a pocket grammar book with you. You could buy a dictionary in Granada, but a grammar will be hard to find - and the intructors teach in Spanish and don't provide written explanations of Grammar. The grammar book published as part of the BBC's Suenos series is quite good. You could order it on the internet from amazon. The Suenos textbook is also quite good (if you wanted to get a head start on your studies).

I found Spanish easier than German - after the same amount of class time in German, I still found it difficult to formulate simple sentences.

Re - accommodation. I haven't been very impressed with either the student residences or "apartments" provided by the schools (that said, I haven't stayed in Granada). Choose a homestay, or book an inexpensive hotel.

rjw_lgb_ca

I'll jump on this thread as a US-born criollo (Spanish born in the States) who's studied in Puerto Rico, Spain and California. Learning Spanish, any dialect, is certainly useful. Holding Castillian up as the "gold standard" of dialects is as silly as holding up that piss-elegant Queen's English up as the Holy Grail of English accents. The dialects of Spanish are much more mutually comprehensible than, say, the dialects of Italy or Portuguese spoken in Portugal versus Brazil. Especially when spoken by educated native speakers. I've never had problems with my Puerto Rican accent.

Two weeks is a short time to learn anything productive or profound. As another poster wisely states, it's great to be able to exchange pleasantries with colleagues in Spanish, but for serious business dealings, either use English (it's Miami, after all-- businesspeople are bilingual) or bring a good interpreter.

And, as someone correctly points out in reference to another post-- Spanish and Catalan are different languages entirely. Both are descended from Latin, but Catalan is actually an offshoot of French; its grammar is much closer to French than Spanish.

BethGL

I lived in Spain as a teenager and moved back to my home in NYC. The difference is like American English and British English. We call it a truck, they call it a lorry.

Spain-ish Spanish and Cuban Spanish are like that. Just some slight difference, but overall the same language.